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+---- Thread: Justice for Blueberry (/thread-2189.html)
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RE: Justice for Blueberry - Jamminitin - 02-16-2011
(02-10-2011, 10:58 AM)Twitchin Kitten Wrote: http://oaklandanimalservices.org/2011/02/update-justice-for-blueberry/
Justice was served. The man has no chance of parole.
Now, tell me why Michael Vick gets to walk after a few months for a much worse offense?
Sorry, Jammin - I know you think Vick did his time and should be forgiven and accepted but he didn't do his time. He has not given one dime to helping dogs and he hardly goes out speaking for them without being prodded to do so.
I have no problem with people being given second chances. I have plenty of friends who've done time and I worked for someone for 6 years who was a paroled felon. But Vick and any other animal abuser who gets off light is a sore spot with me.
My belief is not about Mike Vick and his crime, it is about the justice system and the paroled in general. I could care less about Mike Vick specifically.
If we have the justice system to dole out punishment, we have to accept it good or bad. I have a real issue with someone coming out of jail, having paid their sentence (whether you agree with that sentence or not is irrelevent) and then not provided the opportunity to become a productive part of society again.
RE: Justice for Blueberry - Jamminitin - 02-16-2011
(02-10-2011, 08:05 PM)Phast Phinger Phil Wrote: As a Brit I don't know much about either of these cases, but I do have some very strong opinions about animal abuse. Whatever an abuser inflicts on an animal, they should suffer the same fate. Where this guy beat his dog, whatever he beat it with, do it to him. The hell with prison (at taxpayers expense), I would teach these bastards a lesson they would never, ever forget.
Tbh, I have more sympathy for animals in this predicament than I do for humans. We can speak, we can register complaint etc. An animal cannot.
Babies and children or abused women cannot or will not, yet plenty of crimes perpetrated on them goes unpunished.
RE: Justice for Blueberry - Phast Phinger Phil - 02-17-2011
So what is the point you're trying to make? If people treat other people like shit and get away with it, it should be ok to do the same to animals?
We have the ability to think, speak and reason. If a person chooses, for whatever reason, not to excersise those abilities it's a choice they have made. If a woman stays with a man who beats her then she is as dumb as he is sick. I take your point regarding child abuse but I think you'll find that law and punishment regarding this issue is far more severe than it is towards animal abuse.
As regards "getting away with it", that is the cruncher that society has to face right across the board. From vandals scratching your car, thieves breaking into your home, morons kicking your dog, through to rape and murder - some people get away with it. Indeed, some may have gotten away with it for years but only get caught one time. That is the primary reason why many of us are reluctant to give that "opportunity to become a productive part of society again". Where a person is predisposed to violence, the chances of them re-offending in a similar way are greatly increased. There is an element of sticking it to the scapegoat I suppose, but as I implied earlier, the punishment should fit the crime... in fact it should not be simply a "punishment", it should be a deterrent. That is the problem with the justice system, there are only punishments, and in many cases they do not deter. If, for example, and I know this is taking things to the extreme, but IF people ran the risk of being shot for double parking, they wouldn't do it would they? Problem solved with a deterrent rather than than a "punishment" of a few dollars in fines. As I said, that is an extreme example just to illustrate my point. Punishments don't work, deterrents do.
Ergo, if others are deterred by societies unwillingness to accept Mike Vicks (or any other offenders) punishment as adequate, then that is a step in the right direction in my book.
We have the ability to think, speak and reason. If a person chooses, for whatever reason, not to excersise those abilities it's a choice they have made. If a woman stays with a man who beats her then she is as dumb as he is sick. I take your point regarding child abuse but I think you'll find that law and punishment regarding this issue is far more severe than it is towards animal abuse.
As regards "getting away with it", that is the cruncher that society has to face right across the board. From vandals scratching your car, thieves breaking into your home, morons kicking your dog, through to rape and murder - some people get away with it. Indeed, some may have gotten away with it for years but only get caught one time. That is the primary reason why many of us are reluctant to give that "opportunity to become a productive part of society again". Where a person is predisposed to violence, the chances of them re-offending in a similar way are greatly increased. There is an element of sticking it to the scapegoat I suppose, but as I implied earlier, the punishment should fit the crime... in fact it should not be simply a "punishment", it should be a deterrent. That is the problem with the justice system, there are only punishments, and in many cases they do not deter. If, for example, and I know this is taking things to the extreme, but IF people ran the risk of being shot for double parking, they wouldn't do it would they? Problem solved with a deterrent rather than than a "punishment" of a few dollars in fines. As I said, that is an extreme example just to illustrate my point. Punishments don't work, deterrents do.
Ergo, if others are deterred by societies unwillingness to accept Mike Vicks (or any other offenders) punishment as adequate, then that is a step in the right direction in my book.
RE: Justice for Blueberry - Jamminitin - 02-17-2011
I agree.
RE: Justice for Blueberry - LKTraz - 02-18-2011
(02-16-2011, 11:19 AM)Twitchin Kitten Wrote: Homeowners insurance and pet insurance are separate entities here too.
It's the liability of having a dog that screws you on homeowners insurance. I don't know if my homeowners issues in only in New Jersey or nation wide, but here a burglar can sue you if your dog bites him, cuts himself breaking into your home, gets kicked trying to steal your horses etc. You can't protect yourself or you wind up getting sued by the very asshole trying to harm you and yours.
This actually depends on EXACTLY where you live. At least Pennsylvania works that way. You will see the kind of shit you're experiencing in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh for sure as well as their suburbs. Not so much in Scranton-Wilkes Barre or Allentown and only in small pockets elsewhere in the state.
In my county (Schuylkill) there is no company that will even ask if you OWN a dog much less about which breed/mix. Probably due to the inclination for folks around here to say to the insurance company ...... "WTF? Well if you're gonna be that way piss off. I'll do business elsewhere and see to it that all my friends and neighbors do the same!" And they do carry through with it.
The notion that dogs are good/bad simply on basis of breed is the same thing as saying all Blacks/Hispanics/Caucasians/Asians (you get the picture) are bad because of their "race". Uh hello.......we call that racism. Why is it wrong to assign that standard to people and not dogs?
RE: Justice for Blueberry - Twitchin Kitten - 02-18-2011
Where you live it's easy to carry out such a threat because the population is way less dense as in the cities and larger towns. Problem is we can't get insurance elsewhere as well. NJ restricts who can sell insurance here and 80% of the companies that did insure here split about 12 years ago.
This is ALL types of insurance. This is why I laugh at that stupid health care bill where Obama keeps saying how you can just go buy insurance. It's bullshit. The Repubs have it right about changing laws to allow buying across state lines and the prez won't have it for some reason.
Anyway, as for assigning the same standard for dogs as people? Never going to happen. We still can't get people to stop abusing animals let alone that! Gotta get rid of the mentality of "it's just a dog (cat, hamster, horse, donkey, cow etc.)" - and I'm not meaning to say that animals should be equal to humans.