Something to ponder...

[Twitchin Kitten]

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Everyone is going on and on how oil needs to be replaced. Cars use too much gas. Fossil fuels are BAD. Blah, blah, blah...

OK fine. Come up with an alternate, cheaper fuel that is economical and lets my car make the lovely noise it makes when I step on the gas and I'm on board.

The question is this. Once they ditch fossil fuel and the need for oil, what are they going to make plastic out of? Every damn thing, including your car is made of the stuff. Awful, terrible, cheap and fragile plastic. Will they continue to produce oil in third world countries and manufacture all the plastic we need at an inflated price? But let's go further - say the entire planet stops drilling for oil. What replaces plastic?

[Vizth Hal]

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It is possible to make the petroleum needed for plastics using modified bacteria, They already exist, all that is needed is an infrastructure shift, granted this is no small feat. America is in an excellent position to do this because the bacteria feed on waste plant matter, and this country has a huge fertile area for farms. They can be used to produce diesel as well. Their isn't even a need to refine the diesel, just filter it out of the bacteria vats.

Not so sound like a conspiracy nut job, but the middle east countries that produce a shit ton of the oil, along with the republicans in their wallets (irony here?), are stifling the transition.

It wont eliminate the emissions issues, but at least it'll remove the need for drilling, and especially the increasing trend in the US to drill in populated areas.

Also they are developing cellulose based plastics, indeed they have been around for decades now, they just cant get the funding to go into mass production.


Also I don't remember what material it is but one of the elements needed for efficient / safe hydrogen storage is classified as a nuclear weapons material even though it was just used for a insulator and has nothing to do with the actual explosive device.
Thus making it illegal to sell. But not to manufacture for some reason lol. I think it was lithium-3. I'll see if i can dig up more info.
Also TK you still get the vroom because you can just pipe it into a normal engine in place of gas. But it burns way cleaner, like all you get is some dirty water.


One if the even bigger issues is coal based power plants. If we can axe those and move to newer thorium based reactor tech things will be much cleaner, and safer as the thorium reactors do not require as much material as older models. They can also run off waste from other reactors if I remember correctly. They also very recently finally achieved a fusion reaction that produced more power than it took to generate, although this is still a long long way away from being a viable option.

We can also throw in wind, solar, wave, & geothermal power generation options in areas where such methods are viable.

[twisteroo]

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I just figure fuck it, ain't gonna happen in my life time no matter what. After that I could not possibly care less.
But I would drive one of those Tesla electric cars with a good old American steel bumper on it.

[Twitchin Kitten]

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Viz, how much would they price that shit at then? It sounds like something that would be costly. AND What is stopping anyone with enough money to start a plant and sell the stuff?

[Vizth Hal]

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Viz, how much would they price that shit at then? It sounds like something that would be costly. AND What is stopping anyone with enough money to start a plant and sell the stuff?

Initially it will be more, that's the way with new technology, But it'll rapidly become as cheap as regular oil, cheaper even because it'll eliminate some parts of the process all together.
A good example of this is Tesla, Their models are gradually coming down in price compared to the first ones, and they're better featured. Same with computers, and cars at the beginning of their respective industries.

The lack of initial profit compared to the cost of set up is what helping to keep private investors from starting it, it needs to be a either a government or industry movement to work.
TBH trying to directly compete with the established oil industry would be financial suicide, It needs to be a move to replace not compete with.
There's is also a risk of lost jobs initially as the retooling will result in some parts being rendered unnecessary, and the need retrain people as new plants open and old ones close.

Lets not forget the greedy ass beard guys across the pond too, as soon as a country makes a serious effort to do this you can expect them to throw a monkey wrench at the first possible moment.

[Twitchin Kitten]

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Start with the hippies. Get them using it. Get them to promote it. All on a small scale and if they do like Daryl Hanna did with biofuel and do it right, it can become viable.

[Twitchin Kitten]

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Didn't that T. Boone Pickins guy of the oil industry go on TV a couple years ago rambling on and on how he and his company are moving toward renewable energy or some shit like that? Why isn't anyone bothering him about this stuff?

[Vizth Hal]

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Didn't that T. Boone Pickins guy of the oil industry go on TV a couple years ago rambling on and on how he and his company are moving toward renewable energy or some shit like that? Why isn't anyone bothering him about this stuff?

That's like Homer Simpson promising to take the trash out. That and they have no real immediate incentive to really push the tech while the oil money is still rolling in.

The idea of selling to a small customer base at first may work if it covers the cost of making the product. This isn't something you can really start off small scale prob.